The Latest Forge Shift

Not as in a continental shift but as in, you are sitting in your seat and you shift your butt a bit to get comfortable.

The New Thing

The Forge Booth 2009

Independence, Adept Press, and Indie Press Revolution

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72 thoughts on “The Latest Forge Shift

  1. The IPR post says what I was talking about with friends for quite a while, its goals shifted, and aren’t “ours” anymore, or not entirely.

    Ours being mine and my friends’.

    I didn’t write that second LJ post because, well, it needed to come from other people.

  2. The IPR post says what I was talking about with friends for quite a while, its goals shifted, and aren’t “ours” anymore, or not entirely.

    Ours being mine and my friends’.

    I didn’t write that second LJ post because, well, it needed to come from other people.

  3. The IPR post says what I was talking about with friends for quite a while, its goals shifted, and aren’t “ours” anymore, or not entirely.

    Ours being mine and my friends’.

    I didn’t write that second LJ post because, well, it needed to come from other people.

      • Re: $?

        I’m guessing that:

        a) They’re an independent doing full color works
        b) They don’t really have much in the way of backup merchandising like the big two (movies, videogames, toys, etc.)
        c) They’ve had a crappy time keeping regular release dates
        d) They’re going through the 3 tier comic distribution system
        e) Economic downturn
        f) Invested in indie foreign comics (Okko, etc.)
        g) How much did the Artesia rpg cost to print and did they even break even on it?

        Yeah. Lots of reasons.

          • Re: $?

            Yeah, a lot of rumors have been floating about that. Given that not all the artists immediately jumped on board indicates to me that there has to be some loss of rights somewhere. I’m thinking probably merchandising, which is where the real money comes in and what most companies do to stay afloat when the comics aren’t pulling enough.

            • Re: $?

              That sounds right from my perspective. ASP reminds me of the Flight crew in a lot of ways, being a bunch of up-and-coming artists used to working in full color on the internet, trying to make the transition to for-profit work in print. However, the Flight crew started at Image and then jumped straight to the new comics imprints of major book publishers. Also they started in the more sustainable graphic novel market instead of doing individual issues. ASP is in a tight spot because they are 1) totally on their own, and 2) doing single issues. I’m not sure anyone (CrossGen, etc.) has really got a sustainable model for that yet in the current market, especially not one founded on creator’s rights.

              • Re: $?

                The person to probably ask about this is Stan Sakai. Over 20 years doing the same comic, keeping his rights from Fantagraphics, Dark Horse, (who is he with now?), etc. I wonder how much of it is business savvy on his end, how much is people underestimating the evergreen sales of furry samurai, and how much is the fanbase he brings along with himself.

              • Re: $?

                Stan is definitely an icon. However, like Savage Dragon or Cerebus or even Powers or Kabuki, he’s just doing a single book, which is a bit more complicated that was ASP is trying to do. Single-creator, single-book projects are still pretty viable, I think. After all, if it was just Mark doing Artesia, it seems likely he could have brought his book to Image or Oni or Slave Labor or someone, or continue to publish it himself. But once you’re overseeing a stable of artists, it’s harder to be that nimble, adapting to whatever circumstances present themselves.

              • Re: $?

                Stan is definitely an icon. However, like Savage Dragon or Cerebus or even Powers or Kabuki, he’s just doing a single book, which is a bit more complicated that was ASP is trying to do. Single-creator, single-book projects are still pretty viable, I think. After all, if it was just Mark doing Artesia, it seems likely he could have brought his book to Image or Oni or Slave Labor or someone, or continue to publish it himself. But once you’re overseeing a stable of artists, it’s harder to be that nimble, adapting to whatever circumstances present themselves.

              • Re: $?

                The person to probably ask about this is Stan Sakai. Over 20 years doing the same comic, keeping his rights from Fantagraphics, Dark Horse, (who is he with now?), etc. I wonder how much of it is business savvy on his end, how much is people underestimating the evergreen sales of furry samurai, and how much is the fanbase he brings along with himself.

            • Re: $?

              That sounds right from my perspective. ASP reminds me of the Flight crew in a lot of ways, being a bunch of up-and-coming artists used to working in full color on the internet, trying to make the transition to for-profit work in print. However, the Flight crew started at Image and then jumped straight to the new comics imprints of major book publishers. Also they started in the more sustainable graphic novel market instead of doing individual issues. ASP is in a tight spot because they are 1) totally on their own, and 2) doing single issues. I’m not sure anyone (CrossGen, etc.) has really got a sustainable model for that yet in the current market, especially not one founded on creator’s rights.

          • Re: $?

            Yeah, a lot of rumors have been floating about that. Given that not all the artists immediately jumped on board indicates to me that there has to be some loss of rights somewhere. I’m thinking probably merchandising, which is where the real money comes in and what most companies do to stay afloat when the comics aren’t pulling enough.

      • Re: $?

        I’m guessing that:

        a) They’re an independent doing full color works
        b) They don’t really have much in the way of backup merchandising like the big two (movies, videogames, toys, etc.)
        c) They’ve had a crappy time keeping regular release dates
        d) They’re going through the 3 tier comic distribution system
        e) Economic downturn
        f) Invested in indie foreign comics (Okko, etc.)
        g) How much did the Artesia rpg cost to print and did they even break even on it?

        Yeah. Lots of reasons.

  4. I’m kind of wondering what took so long. Not in a snide way, either – The “indie” of Ron Edwards means real and serious independence, and that’s supercool. All the pieces fit.

  5. I’m kind of wondering what took so long. Not in a snide way, either – The “indie” of Ron Edwards means real and serious independence, and that’s supercool. All the pieces fit.

  6. I’m kind of wondering what took so long. Not in a snide way, either – The “indie” of Ron Edwards means real and serious independence, and that’s supercool. All the pieces fit.

  7. The “ideological fanaticism” was a direct quote from Ron, btw. Thus the smiley.

    It’s not that it’s a different link, it’s having to enter credit card details multiple times, paying extra for shipping (probably), and probably not being able to buy games at “smaller” conventions that IPR attends but individual creators are unlikely to (I’m thinking specifically of the Strategicons in LA).

    But like I say, I fully support it from an ideological perspective, even if it won’t be as inconvenient.

    And get away from my belly!

  8. Re: $?

    I’m guessing that:

    a) They’re an independent doing full color works
    b) They don’t really have much in the way of backup merchandising like the big two (movies, videogames, toys, etc.)
    c) They’ve had a crappy time keeping regular release dates
    d) They’re going through the 3 tier comic distribution system
    e) Economic downturn
    f) Invested in indie foreign comics (Okko, etc.)
    g) How much did the Artesia rpg cost to print and did they even break even on it?

    Yeah. Lots of reasons.

  9. Re: $?

    Yeah, a lot of rumors have been floating about that. Given that not all the artists immediately jumped on board indicates to me that there has to be some loss of rights somewhere. I’m thinking probably merchandising, which is where the real money comes in and what most companies do to stay afloat when the comics aren’t pulling enough.

  10. Re: $?

    That sounds right from my perspective. ASP reminds me of the Flight crew in a lot of ways, being a bunch of up-and-coming artists used to working in full color on the internet, trying to make the transition to for-profit work in print. However, the Flight crew started at Image and then jumped straight to the new comics imprints of major book publishers. Also they started in the more sustainable graphic novel market instead of doing individual issues. ASP is in a tight spot because they are 1) totally on their own, and 2) doing single issues. I’m not sure anyone (CrossGen, etc.) has really got a sustainable model for that yet in the current market, especially not one founded on creator’s rights.

  11. Re: $?

    The person to probably ask about this is Stan Sakai. Over 20 years doing the same comic, keeping his rights from Fantagraphics, Dark Horse, (who is he with now?), etc. I wonder how much of it is business savvy on his end, how much is people underestimating the evergreen sales of furry samurai, and how much is the fanbase he brings along with himself.

  12. Re: $?

    Stan is definitely an icon. However, like Savage Dragon or Cerebus or even Powers or Kabuki, he’s just doing a single book, which is a bit more complicated that was ASP is trying to do. Single-creator, single-book projects are still pretty viable, I think. After all, if it was just Mark doing Artesia, it seems likely he could have brought his book to Image or Oni or Slave Labor or someone, or continue to publish it himself. But once you’re overseeing a stable of artists, it’s harder to be that nimble, adapting to whatever circumstances present themselves.

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